(no subject)

[eliyes]

Passing along the link to a news story a day after I saw it, because I needed some time to calm down.

Okay.

Imagine that, however close to where you live bars are usually found, there's this one bar. Maybe you've been in a few times with friends, if you're a bar-going person. Maybe you've just passed by it on your way to someplace else.

But now -- now you find out that this bar has just obtained the legally-supported right to turn away anyone who does not fit their clientele. Now, this is not because they have a private membership, no no -- nor is it a case of bouncers not letting in people who aren't hot/rich/important/young/old enough.

No, this bar bans people on the basis of their sexual orientation, and have the state's permission to do so. They are doing this because their supported clientele were made uncomfortable by the presence of people of a different sexuality than their own, which has been on an upswing over the last year, apparently.

Now, I'm wondering how one checks that, exactly. Is there a test you have to pass at the door? Does someone need to vouch for your sexual preferences? What if you're new to the area?

The thing is, it's a gay bar. If this was a bar banning homosexuals, gays would be pissed, it would be a human rights violation, flagrant discrimination, etc. (Oh, and from the sounds of it? Lesbians are also not particularly welcome. I'd be willing to bet they're not necessarily opening their arms to bisexuals, either.)

The reason for the ban has to do with the gay patrons no longer feeling safe, and the straight patrons treating them like animals in a zoo. This would be because of rude straight patrons, and maybe trying to educate them on a little basic etiquette would be better, in my opinion -- besides, from my (admittedly limited) experience of bars and clubs, everyone looks at everyone like they're animals in a zoo -- or meat on display. Or else they just ignore everyone in favour of their friends, maybe play a little pool and listen to the band.

Am I the only one who thinks this is silly? And seriously, how would they check?

The article is here.

Comments

[syvia.livejournal.com]

... You have to tongue-kiss the bouncer before they let you in?

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

But if you're a good enough actor, you can totally fake that. And what if you decline due to cold sore?

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

They show you the image of a hot chick and a hot dude.

Pick wrong and out you go B|

I don't know either. :V Gay bars sound pretty cool.

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

What if the hot dude is not your type? :V

They can be. I have been to some fun ones here. It's actually heterosexuals thinking "gay bars sound like a good time" and going there with a bunch of their friends that started this. *shake shead sadly*

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

Oh snap :V FLAWS

Isn't that what a bar's for? having a good time? :(

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

Well if you're good time is interfering with my god time and the owner likes me better --

I really couldn't speculate on what, ultimately, a bar is for.

[covenhouse-cat.livejournal.com]

That's effing obnoxious and should be protested immediately.

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

Yes!

[steelthorns.livejournal.com]

There's a columnist who I read who supports the idea of businesses making rules like this at their choice, simply because if they have stupid rules (like so, although there could be much stupider), people won't patronize the place, and it'll go under. Batabing, justice.

>_> How do they check for bisexuals? Do they not exist again?

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

...Darwinism for business. Huh. I think I like it.

I think we don't exist again is right.

[naiveprophet.livejournal.com]

And seriously, how would they check?

That made me laugh. ^^;;;

As a straight person who has been to a gay club, I find it odd that other straight people would go to a gay bar/club/drinking hole unless they enjoyed the company of gays, like I do. Where I was, there were a lot of straight people, but no one hassled anyone as far as I could tell and people seemed to have a good time.

So why would a straight person go to a gay bar in the first place? Wouldn't he (or she) rather go to a hetero bar if, y'know, they're trying to pick someone up, which, admittedly, is why most people go out. If you're straight and you don't feel comfortable around gays to the point where you need to make abusive comments towards them why would you surround yourself by them?!

I certainly think that this whole thing is silly, and on both sides. The straight people for going to a gay bar and picking fights, and the gay people for kicking the straighties out.

Why can't we all just get along?

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

Maybe it has a good floor show? I know straight women who hang out at gay bars because they can just drink with their friends and not worry aobut being hit on. (Forgetting that lesbians go to gay bars, sometimes with hilarious results.) Actually, around here some straight guys figured this out and started going to gay bars, too, looking for such ladies, and now a drag cabaret downtown is no longer a gay bar, despite the rainbow flag, figuring hey, anyone who wants to drop by can. Mostly on weekends there's a mixed crowd, and on weekdays it's more predominantly a gay crowd.

You can totally tell I know/knew a couple of the DJs and someone who plays there on band nights and one of the bartenders, can't you? ^^;

[serenity-ca4.livejournal.com]

Well, first off, the article makes reference to things like Stag and Does. It may not be that people are choosing to go to these places to hang out with gays or even to abuse them, but rather, someone else picked the venue and they're going to support the event.. and "God, what are those freaking fags doing here" kind of thing.

Second, the concept really isn't all that different from all-women's gyms. There certainly have been court cases (and probably some are battling away as we speak) of men trying to fight these gyms.

Ultimately it comes down to a question of a proprietor's right to turn away customers vs. societies desire to have everyone treated equally. Quite honestly, I think it comes down to motive. A proprietor turning away customers because of racism, hate or ignorance should not be allowed. Turning away customers in order to make your patrons feel comfortable and safe (when the threat is real) should be allowed.

I suspect, in actual practice, what the proprietor was probably looking for was a legal way of saying 'you don't belong here' when issues do occur, and a way to discourage random people from showing up, as well as making it clear to the public that this place will be a safe haven for gays and everyone better respect that. It would also discourage people having stag and does - not gay oriented - from holding them at this particular establishment. A kind of "Look, you can come in, you can enjoy the atmosphere and the bar, but really, don't go throwing parties here with a whole lot of people you don't really know and/or wouldn't really fit in." As far as checking you at the door, I would imagine they wouldn't actually look too hard at your sexual orientation unless they foresaw a problem.

Really, the only concern I have is the precedence this might set. Will other bars turn around and start coming up with reasons why they should be allowed to exclude gay patrons, but I would hope, given that there isn't an issue with straight bashing by gays, that the courts would be smart enough to not allow it.

[eliyes.livejournal.com]

I suspect, in actual practice, what the proprietor was probably looking for was a legal way of saying 'you don't belong here' when issues do occur

This makes a lot of sense.

People have a tendency to try foster exclusivity in groups for a sense of identity, but still -- it seems very very liable to shoot them in the foot.